Agenda and minutes

Council - Wednesday, 12th November, 2014 1.30 pm

Venue: Civic Hall, Leeds

Contact: Governance Services Unit 

Media

Items
No. Item

54.

Announcements

Additional documents:

Minutes:

a)  The Lord Mayor congratulated Councillor Walshaw on the recent birth of his son.

b)  The Lord Mayor reported the recent retirement of Richard Mills.

c)  The Lord Mayor congratulated Councillor Downes on his fundraising efforts, summiting Kilimanjaro for the Lily Foundation.

d)  The Lord Mayor reported the receipt of a letter from Sir Rodney Walker, Chairman of the Tour de France Hub 2014 Ltd, the Lord Mayor read the contents of the letter to the meeting. 

 

55.

Minutes pdf icon PDF 161 KB

To approve the minutes of the Council Meetings held on 10th September 2014.

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Selby, seconded by Councillor G Latty and

 

RESOLVED – That the minutes of the meetings held on 10th September 2014 be approved.

 

56.

Declarations of Interest

To receive any declarations of interest from Members

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

There were no declarations of interest.

 

57.

Communications

To receive such communications as the Lord Mayor, the Leader,  Members of the Executive Board or the Chief Executive consider appropriate

Additional documents:

Minutes:

The Chief Executive informed Council that responses to Council resolutions had been received from the Rt Hon Greg Clark MP , Minister for Universities, Science and Cities with regard to a White Paper in respect of Devolution and from the Rt Hon Mike Penning MP , Minister of State for Policing , Criminal Justice and Victims with regard to a White Paper in respect of Police and Crime Commissioners considered at Council in September 2014 and that the responses had previously been circulated to all Members of Council.

 

58.

Deputations

To receive deputations in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 10

Additional documents:

Minutes:

Four deputations were admitted to the meeting and addressed Council, as follows:-

 

1)  Grove Lane Residents regarding traffic issues on Grove Lane

 

2)  West Riding Ramblers’ Association regarding the ‘Walk Leeds Festival’

 

3)  South Leeds Delegation regarding the Trolley Bus Scheme and the route in South Leeds

 

4)  North West Leeds Transport Forum regarding NGT

 

 

 

RESOLVED – That the subject matter in respect of deputation 1 be referred to the Director of City Development for consideration in consultation with the relevant Executive Member and Community Committee Chair, that the subject matter in respect of deputation 2 be referred to the Director Public Health for consideration in consultation with the relevant Executive Member and the subject matter in respect of deputation 3 and 4 be referred to the Director of City Development for consideration in consultation with the relevant Executive Member.

 

59.

Motion to Suspend Council Procedure Rules

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Selby, seconded by Councillor Campbell that ;

 

(a)  Under the provisions of Council Procedure Rule 2.3, that the order of business be varied so that the items relating to the Leeds Core Strategy and the Leeds Community Infrastructure Levy be considered after the tea break, that questions be considered immediately after deputations and that the tea break be taken at the conclusion of the summing up on the minutes by the Leader of Council.

 

(b)  Council Procedure Rule 14.1 (f) and (g) be suspended in respect of the Leeds Core Strategy/Leeds Community Infrastructure Levy to allow the member summing up on the motion to do so for up to 4 minutes and to allow 1 spokesperson from each opposition group to speak for  up to 4 minutes.

 

(c)  Under the provisions of Council Procedure Rule 13.2 (d) that the Back Bench Community Concern in the name of Councillor Campbell be withdrawn.

 

  (d) Under the provisions of Council Procedure Rule 22.1(Suspension of  Council Procedure Rules), that Council Procedure Rule 12.1(Motions on Notice) be suspended to allow the introduction of an Emergency Motion  detailed in the order paper below.

 

 

 

Upon being put to the vote the motions were carried.

60.

Questions

To deal with questions in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 11

Additional documents:

Minutes:

Q1  Councillor Anderson to the Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel):-

 

Will the Executive Board Member for Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel confirm whether the Council has submitted an expression of interest for Government Housing Zone funding?

 

The Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel) replied.

 

Q2  Councillor Golton to the Executive Member (Transport and the Economy):-

 

Will the Executive Board member for Transport and the Economy inform Council of the total cost of officer time spent up to the end of October 2014 on planning and implementing the residential selective part night switching of street lights in Rothwell Ward?

 

 

The Executive Member (Transport and the Economy) replied.

 

Q3  Councillor Coulson to the Executive Member (Cleaner, Stronger and Safer Communities):-

 

Does the Executive Member for Cleaner, Stronger and Safer Communities believe the government’s taxi licensing reforms are in the best interests of community safety?

 

  The Executive Member (Cleaner, Stronger and Safer Communities) replied.

 

Q4  Councillor Finnigan to the Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel):-

 

Can the Executive Board Member for Housing please confirm the costs in officer time and in legal costs and legal representation for the Cottingley Springs Travellers Site Public Inquiry?

 

 

The Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel) replied.

 

Q5  Councillor G Harper to the Executive Member (Health & Wellbeing):-

 

Following the publication of the Verita reports last month, how confident is the Executive Member for Health & Wellbeing about the future provision of Congenital Heart Services in Leeds?

 

 

The Executive Member (Health & Wellbeing) replied.

 

Q6  Councillor J Procter to the Leader of Council:-

 

Will the Leader of Council outline any implications for Leeds City Council of the recent tribunal ruling that will see overtime calculated within holiday pay?

 

 

The Leader of Council replied.

 

Q7  Councillor Campbell to the Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel):-

 

Can the Executive Board member for Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel inform Council what the formula used by council officers is 1) to calculate the reduced green space contribution; and 2) the reduced garden size; for housing development in the vicinity of public parks?

 

The Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel) replied.

 

Q8  Councillor Maqsood to the Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel):-

 

Given 12th November is Housing Day, could the Executive member with responsibility for housing and planning confirm whether he supports the measures laid out in the Lyons Review of Housing?

 

  The Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel) replied.

 

Q9  Councillor Finnigan to the Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel):-

 

Can the Executive Board Member for Housing confirm the number of housing new build completions for the last 3 years?

 

 

The Executive Member (Neighbourhoods, Planning and Personnel) replied.

 

Q10  Councillor Macniven to the Executive Member (Adult Social Care):-

 

Could the Executive Member please outline his views on the new ratings announced recently by the Care Quality Commission regarding the standard of care in homes?

 

 

The Executive Member (Adult Social Care) replied.

 

 

  Q11  Councillor Anderson to the Executive Member (Cleaner, Stronger and Safer Communities):-

 

Will the Executive  ...  view the full minutes text for item 60.

61.

Report on Appointments pdf icon PDF 56 KB

To consider the report of the City Solicitor on appointments.

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Selby, seconded by Councillor G Latty and

 

RESOLVED –

 

That the appointments referred to in paragraph 4 of the report be approved, namely that Councillor G Latty be appointed to replace Councillor P Latty on Scrutiny Board (Health and Well-being and Adult Social Care)and that Councillor Campbell replace ‘whips nominee’ on Scrutiny Board(Housing and Regeneration)

 

62.

Report on the Outer West Community Committee pdf icon PDF 74 KB

To consider a report in respect of the Outer West Community Committee

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Jarosz, seconded by Councillor Selby and

 

 

RESOLVED – That the report on the work of the Outer West Community Committee be noted.

 

63.

Report on the Inner East Community Committee pdf icon PDF 71 KB

To consider a report in respect of the Inner East Community Committee

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor A Khan , seconded by Councillor Selby and

 

 

RESOLVED – That the report on the work of the Inner East Community Committee be noted.

 

64.

Report on Leeds Award pdf icon PDF 56 KB

To consider the report of the City Solicitor in respect of the Leeds Award.

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Hyde, seconded by Councillor Selby and

 

RESOLVED – That the recommendations of the Leeds Award Panel to nominate Mr Arthur France to receive the Leeds Award, as presented by the report of the City Solicitor, be approved. 

 

65.

Minutes

To receive the following minutes in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 2.2(i):-

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Wakefield, seconded by Councillor Selby that the minutes be received in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 2.2(i).

 

RESOLVED – That the minutes be received in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 2.2(i)

 

Council Procedure Rule 4, providing for the winding up of business, was applied prior to all notified comments on the minutes having been debated.

 

 

Following the summing up on the minutes by the Leader of Council , the meeting was suspended at 4.45pm and resumed at 5.10pm.

 

66.

Back Bench Community Concern pdf icon PDF 133 KB

To receive a Community Concern in the name of Councillor Campbell in respect of issues regarding the inconsistency on validation of planning applications in Otley and Yeadon.

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

Following a resolution of the Council meeting the Community Concern was withdrawn from the agenda.

 

 

 

67.

Recommendations of the Executive Board - The Leeds Community Infrastructure Levy - Adoption of the Charging Schedule pdf icon PDF 71 KB

To consider the report of the Director of City Development setting out recommendations from the Executive Board on 17 September 2014 to Full Council in respect of the Leeds Community Infrastructure Levy.  

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor P Gruen, seconded by Councillor Selby and

 

RESOLVED –

 

i)  To adopt the Leeds Community Infrastructure Levy Charging Schedule and implement the Community Infrastructure Levy charges from 6th April 2015.

 

ii)  To note that the following steps will be undertaken in order to deliver the decisions:

 

o  The timescales for the implementation of the decisions are that Leeds City Council will start charging the CIL from 6th April 2015.

 

o  The Chief Planning Officer is the officer responsible for   implementation.

 

68.

Recommendations of the Executive Board - LDF Core Strategy Inspector's Report and Adoption pdf icon PDF 68 KB

To consider the report of the Director of City Development setting out recommendations from the Executive Board on 17 September 2014 to Full Council in respect of the Leeds Core Strategy.  

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor P Gruen, seconded by Councillor Selby that Council is recommended to adopt the Leeds Core Strategy(as submitted for examination and with the main modifications recommended by the Inspector and the additional minor modifications proposed) pursuant to Section 23 of the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004(as amended). 

 

An amendment was moved by Councillor J Procter, seconded by Councillor Collins,

 

Insert under Recommendations of item 6 LDF Core Strategy Inspector’s Report and Adoption:

 

‘The Council commits to undertake an immediate review of overall housing numbers, in light of population projections and ministerial statements, to commence in tandem with the forthcoming consultation on site allocations and to be completed before specific site allocations take place.’

 

The amendment in the name of Councillor J Procter was declared lost and upon being put to the vote it was

 

RESOLVED - That Council adopt the Leeds Core Strategy(as submitted for examination and with the main modifications recommended by the Inspector and the additional minor modifications proposed) pursuant to Section 23 of the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004(as amended). 

 

On the requisition of Councillors G Latty and J Procter, the voting on the amendment was recorded as follows;

 

YES - 36

 

Anderson, J Bentley, S Bentley , A Blackburn, D Blackburn, Buckley, Campbell,  A Carter, J L Carter ,Castle, Cleasby, Chapman ,Cohen, Collins, Downes, Elliott, Finnigan, Flynn, Gettings ,Golton, Harrand, Lamb, G Latty, P Latty, Lay ,Leadley, Marjoram, J Procter, R Procter, Robinson, Townsley, Varley, Wadsworth, Wilford, Wilkinson and Wood

 

 

NO - 61

 

Akhtar, Blake, Bruce, Charlwood, Coulson, Coupar, Cummins, Davey, Dawson, Dobson, Dowson, Dunn, Gabriel,  P Grahame, R Grahame, C Gruen, P Gruen, Groves, Hamilton, Hanley, Harington, Harland, Harper, A Hussain, G Hussain, G Hyde, Illingworth, Ingham, Iqbal, Jarosz, A Khan, J Lewis, R Lewis, Lowe, Lyons, Macniven, Maqsood, A McKenna, J McKenna, S McKenna, Mitchell, Morgan, Mulherin, Nagle, Ogilvie, Pryor, Rafique, Renshaw, Ritchie, Selby, Smart, Sobel, E Taylor, Towler, Truswell, Urry, Venner, Walker, Walshaw, Wakefield and Yeadon. 

 

 

ABSTAIN - 0

On the requisition of Councillors Selby and P Gruen, the voting on the motion was recorded as follows;

 

YES - 61

 

Akhtar, Blake, Bruce, Charlwood, Coulson, Coupar, Cummins, Davey, Dawson, Dobson, Dowson, Dunn, Gabriel,  P Grahame, R Grahame, C Gruen, P Gruen, Groves, Hamilton, Hanley, Harington, Harland, Harper, A Hussain, G Hussain, G Hyde, Illingworth, Ingham, Iqbal, Jarosz, A Khan, J Lewis, R Lewis, Lowe, Lyons, Macniven, Maqsood, A McKenna, J McKenna, S McKenna, Mitchell, Morgan, Mulherin, Nagle, Ogilvie, Pryor, Rafique, Renshaw, Ritchie, Selby, Smart, Sobel, E Taylor, Towler, Truswell, Urry, Venner, Walker, Walshaw, Wakefield and Yeadon. 

 

NO - 0

 

 

ABSTAIN - 18

 

J Bentley, S Bentley , A Blackburn, D Blackburn, Campbell, Cleasby, Chapman Downes, Elliott, Finnigan, Gettings ,Golton, Lay ,Leadley, Marjoram, Townsley, Varley and Wilford.

 

69.

White Paper Motion (in the name of Councillor Buckley) - Health and Wellbeing pdf icon PDF 133 KB

This Council notes the work done over the past 18 months by the Leeds Health and Wellbeing Board and looks forward to further positive work in the future.

 

Council recognises the budgetary and service improvement pressures within social care and health services and believes that these services will see significant transformation both in Leeds and nationally over the coming years.

 

Given the challenges ahead, this Council believes that the Health and Wellbeing Board should develop a more proactive approach to dealing with the health issues that matter most to Leeds residents. It should also ensure members of the public are aware of the likely changes to come, and are engaged with the work of the Board and its role in helping to bring about these changes.

 

This Council asks that a report is brought to Executive Board to explore and review how to better engage the public in future changes to health and wellbeing in Leeds and how the Health and Wellbeing Board can work more effectively towards achieving that goal.

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Buckley, seconded by Councillor G Latty that this Council notes the work done over the past 18 months by the Leeds Health and Wellbeing Board and looks forward to further positive work in the future.

 

Council recognises the budgetary and service improvement pressures within social care and health services and believes that these services will see significant transformation both in Leeds and nationally over the coming years.

 

Given the challenges ahead, this Council believes that the Health and Wellbeing Board should develop a more proactive approach to dealing with the health issues that matter most to Leeds residents. It should also ensure members of the public are aware of the likely changes to come, and are engaged with the work of the Board and its role in helping to bring about these changes.

 

This Council asks that a report is brought to Executive Board to explore and review how to better engage the public in future changes to health and wellbeing in Leeds and how the Health and Wellbeing Board can work more effectively towards achieving that goal.

 

An amendment was moved by Councillor Mulherin, seconded by Councillor Blake

 

Delete all after “positive work in the future” and replace with:

 

Council recognises the severe budgetary and service transformation pressures placed on local and national health and care systems as a result of the Governments mismanagement of the NHS and the flawed legislation which led to the unnecessary and costly top-down reorganisation of the NHS.

 

The result is the biggest shake-up of the NHS since its creation with health and care services now facing unprecedented transformation in extremely challenging timescales.

 

This Council requests that the Health and Wellbeing Board is tasked with producing a report to explore and review how it can further work with the public to ensure that it is best placed to improve the health and wellbeing of the whole city and to ensure that people who are the poorest will improve their health the fastest.

 

Motion will then read:

 

The council notes the work done over the past 18 months by the Leeds Health and Wellbeing Board and looks forward to further positive work in the future.

 

Council recognises the severe budgetary and service transformation pressures placed on local and national health and care systems as a result of the Governments mismanagement of the NHS and the flawed legislation which led to the unnecessary and costly top-down reorganisation of the NHS.

 

The result is the biggest shake-up of the NHS since its creation with health and care services now facing unprecedented transformation in extremely challenging timescales.

 

This Council requests that the Health and Wellbeing Board is tasked with producing a report to explore and review how it can further work with the public to ensure that it is best placed to improve the health and wellbeing of the whole city and to ensure that people who are the poorest will improve their health the fastest.

 

A second amendment was moved by Councillor  ...  view the full minutes text for item 69.

70.

White Paper Motion (in the name of Councillor Chapman) - Fixed Odds Betting Terminals pdf icon PDF 137 KB

This council notes the prevalence of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs) and their concentration in high unemployment areas.  This council also notes that, unlike fruit machines in pubs and amusement arcades where cash stakes are limited to £2, gamblers can bet up to £100 every 20 seconds on FOBTs with cash or card, more than four times as fast as the rate of play in casinos and with over £1.5bn lost on FOBTs across the UK in 2012 alone.

 

This council believes that the increase in FOBTs is causing significant problems and that the Government should either use the existing legislative framework, or introduce legislation, to outlaw B2 casino games in betting shops.

 

At the very least, local authorities should be given the powers to protect the local amenity and wellbeing of communities by (1) stopping the proliferation of betting shops and (2) reducing the maximum stakes and slowing down the speed of play.

 

This council therefore requests that the Chief Executive writes to Helen Grant MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Sport and Tourism, recommending a reduction in the maximum bet per spin on FOBTs to £2 and officially supporting London Borough Newham’s Sustainable Communities Act proposal to give local authorities the power to do the same.

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Chapman, seconded by Councillor Harland and

 

RESOLVED - That this council notes the prevalence of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs) and their concentration in high unemployment areas.  This council also notes that, unlike fruit machines in pubs and amusement arcades where cash stakes are limited to £2, gamblers can bet up to £100 every 20 seconds on FOBTs with cash or card, more than four times as fast as the rate of play in casinos and with over £1.5bn lost on FOBTs across the UK in 2012 alone.

 

This council believes that the increase in FOBTs is causing significant problems and that the Government should either use the existing legislative framework, or introduce legislation, to outlaw B2 casino games in betting shops.

 

At the very least, local authorities should be given the powers to protect the local amenity and wellbeing of communities by (1) stopping the proliferation of betting shops and (2) reducing the maximum stakes and slowing down the speed of play.

 

This council therefore requests that the Chief Executive writes to Helen Grant MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Sport and Tourism, recommending a reduction in the maximum bet per spin on FOBTs to £2 and officially supporting London Borough Newham’s Sustainable Communities Act proposal to give local authorities the power to do the same.

 

71.

White Paper Motion (in the name of Councillor J Lewis) - Local Public Transport Networks pdf icon PDF 153 KB

This Council believes the people of Leeds and their elected representatives are best placed to develop and shape local public transport networks.

 

Council is concerned that current arrangements, where decisions are made either by remote government departments and agencies or private sector operators, have resulted in under investment, inadequate services and rising costs for passengers.

 

Council believes that a lack of local planning and integration has created a public transport system that fails to meet the needs of the people of Leeds.

 

Council would like to see a fully integrated local transport system, including modern integrated ‘Oyster style’ ticketing, locally planned networks and investment in order to create growth in passenger numbers and help build a stronger economy for Leeds residents. 

 

Council resolves to proceed with the development of London style franchising through bus Quality Contracts and to continue discussions with the Department of Transport to devolve management of the forthcoming TransPennine and Northern Rail franchises.  Council further resolves to seek continued devolution from Westminster and Whitehall of the powers and resources to Leeds City Region to enable the creation of a publicly run and accountable integrated transport network and welcomes initiatives such as the proposed Transport for the North.

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor J Lewis, seconded by Councillor Harper that this Council believes the people of Leeds and their elected representatives are best placed to develop and shape local public transport networks.

 

Council is concerned that current arrangements, where decisions are made either by remote government departments and agencies or private sector operators, have resulted in under investment, inadequate services and rising costs for passengers.

 

Council believes that a lack of local planning and integration has created a public transport system that fails to meet the needs of the people of Leeds.

 

Council would like to see a fully integrated local transport system, including modern integrated ‘Oyster style’ ticketing, locally planned networks and investment in order to create growth in passenger numbers and help build a stronger economy for Leeds residents. 

 

Council resolves to proceed with the development of London style franchising through bus Quality Contracts and to continue discussions with the Department of Transport to devolve management of the forthcoming TransPennine and Northern Rail franchises.  Council further resolves to seek continued devolution from Westminster and Whitehall of the powers and resources to Leeds City Region to enable the creation of a publicly run and accountable integrated transport network and welcomes initiatives such as the proposed Transport for the North.

 

An amendment was moved by Councillor Golton, seconded by Councillor Campbell;

 

at the end of paragraph 3 delete “Leeds” and replace with “the Leeds City Region” 

 

Insert new fourth paragraph prior to existing para 4 as follows :-

 

“Council also notes the public opposition to the NGT routes and believes this is due to the restrictions placed on developing a suitable transit system for the City by central Government over the last twenty years, and the inability of the scheme to react to developments in technology and rider expectations.  Council therefore calls on the Executive Board and the West Yorkshire Combined Authority to return to central government in the light of recent announcements and request that the funding promised for NGT is transferred to the West Yorkshire transport fund, for local decision making on the most appropriate means of proceeding with a relevant and acceptable scheme.”

 

in original paragraph 5 add after “resolves to” the word “urgently” in the first sentence; and delete the word “and” and replace with “, noting that NEXUS has agreed to proceed with the introduction of Quality Bus Contracts at a more rapid pace than West Yorkshire has proceeded at over recent years.  Council further resolves “

 

add at end of the paragraph

“Council particularly welcomes calls by the Deputy Prime Minister for funding to be included in next month’s Autumn Statement for transport improvements in West Yorkshire at the Northern Futures Conference on the 6th November, and resolves to write to the Chancellor of the Exchequer urging him to include devolved funding in his proposals.”

 

Motion will then read;

 

This Council believes the people of Leeds and their elected representatives are best placed to develop and shape local public transport networks.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 71.

72.

Emergency Motion(in the name of Councillor Mulherin) - Congenital Heart Services in England

Additional documents:

Minutes:

It was moved by Councillor Mulherin , seconded by Councillor Buckley and

 

RESOLVED – That this Council welcomes the consultation currently being undertaken by NHS England on the standards that will be used to determine the future service provision of Congenital Heart Services in England.  We are pleased to see that Adults and Children’s services are now being considered together.  This was a key recommendation from this Council and the Yorkshire and Humber Joint Health Scrutiny Committee in the “Safe and Sustainable” review.

 

We welcome the overall emphasis on co-location of services and note that Leeds is well-placed to deliver this with all children’s services and maternity services under one roof.

 

We also welcome the greater involvement of patient groups prior to formal consultation this time. However, we are very disappointed that efforts were not made with groups who are particularly susceptible to congenital heart disease, such as the South Asian Community in West Yorkshire, to ensure that they were able to fully engage in the consultation.

 

We are also concerned to ensure that there is a level playing field for hospital Trusts to make the investment required to meet the proposed standards.

 

Finally we continue to assert the principle that the clinicians should come to the people, rather than the people having to go to the clinicians. 

 

We call upon NHS England and the Secretary of State for Health to:

 

a)  Align standards with the resources to meet them where necessary so that there is a level playing field for hospital Trusts, and the communities they serve.

b)  Ensure that there is access to expert safe and sustainable care within recognised travel times for emergency surgery and that the impact on families of lengthy periods away from home following surgery is minimised by ensuring that hospitals serving major population centres continue to provide specialist congenital heart surgery.

 

 

Council rose at 8.05pm